Author Topic: bushs\' New Iraq Strategy Speech  (Read 5308 times)

BlackWatch

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bushs\' New Iraq Strategy Speech
« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2007, 08:48:16 PM »
DD:

Interesting article, though it is obviously an opinion piece and not an objective study.....

A couple thoughts:

I will grant you that there are HMOs and other managed care companies that do some crappy stuff. Yes, they also make a lot of paperwork for themselves and doctors. Thats why managed care is dumb.

Fee for service medicine is responsible. Patients pay the bills, and then file claims. Yes, the patient has to do the paperwork, but it saves a lot of the administrative costs. Further patients should be aware of costs. Fee for service prevents the ever present game where doctors increase costs to off set the fact that insurance companies, and Medicare etc., will negotiate down the costs. This is responsible for much of the rising health care cost. Uninsured people end up paying artificially inflated costs.... costs not paid by the HMO\'s.

See both the current system and the Universal Health Care systems removes the health care consumer from the equation.... In otherwords, under both systems, YOU, the customer are the LAST person who is asked what you think, if you are lucky enough to be asked at all.

With a fee for service system, you as the customer are back in the equation.

That article talks about the low admin costs of Medicare.... yeah well thats because they are running about six months to a year behind.  I have to deal with Medicare all the time at my job. They run a skeleton crew that provides pretty poor service, but yes, it might reduce costs.

The article also leaves out the fact we have mentioned several times here about why are Canadians coming here to pay for service when they have "free" medicine at home.

The article fails to address how this will work when the baby boomer population of retired folks is larger than those of us left who are paying in....

The article talks about the billions that will be saved.... but saved by whom??? Me??? No I think my costs ie. taxes will increase, and I will loose a part of my employee compensation that I view as salary (especially because at my job I can opt out of the benefits program, and take the cash as taxable income).... So who saves the billions????

The article makes much ado about CEO compensation, but leaves out all the average people who become unemployed when private health care is shut down. And heaven forbid an insurance company make a profit.... Maybe the doctors should work for free? I mean fair is fair after all.

BTW, most insurance companies make a profit by investing, not off of premiums, which are highly regulated by the state as it is.

Also, the article is a bit backwards.... The very ability to make profits is an engine of effecientcy. Businesses have a vested interest in lowering admin costs to increase profits.

The article talks about how poor health Americans are in.... News flash... That has far more to do with personal habits than health care. Americans are by and large..... well... large. So also consider how much of your taxes are going to pay for bypass surgery on some ball of goo with a Micky D\'s addiction. And why should Mr. Gooey change his ways.... The surgery is "free". Meanwhile the government considers taking away my right to eat at McDonalds because "Gooey" can\'t manage to control himself.

You think not???? NYC banned transfat.... whats next?

But as I said, I think it will happen regardless.... I also think it will likely fail.

There is no perfect system... Obviously what we have is not the greatest. But I do not agree that Universal Health Care will be some kind of God Send. Maybe I will be proven wrong, its happened once or twice before.

I think it will have problems, and the same people that cried out for it, will be the first to complain about its shortcomings. Asking for the government to do something else to rescue them.... Ahhh the culture of dependency, where we shirk responsibility onto the government so we always have someone else to blame for our problems, and let others work for our successes.....

Sad...

Mark
A deuce for the corner of your warehouse....

BlackWatch

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bushs\' New Iraq Strategy Speech
« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2007, 09:19:30 PM »
I did actually go read up on Canada\'s system....

They have a system where 70% of health care is publicly funded, though almost 100% is privately administered.

The average wait for service is 17 weeks.

They have a very low doctor to patient ratio. In otherwords they do not have enough doctors, which contributes to the wait.

Doctors wages are lower than here, making the jobs less attractive.

Many services such as dental and vision are not covered, so people have to buy private insurance for that and some other non covered proceedures as well.

More and more people are buying private insurance to avoid waiting.

Canadian Supreme Court Chief Justice Beverly McLachlin, said in a recent decision that allowed private insurance in Quebec (previously it illegal to have private insurance), "Access to a waiting list is not access to health care"

Another concern......

Immigration..... If we are going to go for Universal Health Care then we will have to do some serious work on controlling immigration.... We simply cannot afford to insure people who are not even paying taxes (though a lot of illegal immigrants actually do pay taxes). Or we will have to alter the tax system to a consumption tax, so that EVERYONE pays.

But as long as we have open borders the talk of Universal Health Care is a recipe for disaster.

Anyway, this is to say that there are pros and cons to every system, and no system is perfect. And its not the "no brainer" it appears to be.

Mark
A deuce for the corner of your warehouse....

gamesmstr

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bushs\' New Iraq Strategy Speech
« Reply #47 on: January 30, 2007, 07:26:12 AM »
I am all for a consumption tax.  Provided it replaces completely our current income tax system.

BlackWatch

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« Reply #48 on: January 30, 2007, 10:08:54 AM »
Quote from: gamesmstr;74847
I am all for a consumption tax.  Provided it replaces completely our current income tax system.

Don\'t forget the corporate taxes either.... Especially, since corporations do not pay taxes in the first place, they merely pass the cost to the consumer.

So in the end, even corporate taxes, are taxes on individuals....

Mark
A deuce for the corner of your warehouse....

DD

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bushs\' New Iraq Strategy Speech
« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2007, 11:54:03 AM »
I am all for consumption tax.

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« Reply #50 on: January 30, 2007, 02:44:47 PM »
Quote from: DD;74877
I am all for consumption tax.


Cool, and ya know, if we had a system like that where everyone really did pay in, I think I would be a bit more open to things like Universal Health Care....

a bit more open....

Mark
A deuce for the corner of your warehouse....

Yocum

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bushs\' New Iraq Strategy Speech
« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2015, 03:43:06 PM »
Quote from: DD;74698

I was just trying to get a rise out of you. Make you mad.


You never made anybody mad here.

Your shit is too stupid.
You\'re not wrong Walter, you\'re just an asshole.